"It still makes me smile thinking back to the time we all felt like real castaways on a real island with real fans following our every move."
-An Interview with Hogan Mueller

Mario: Hey everyone, and welcome to the latest segment of "The Okinawa Interview." I know you haven't seen many of these in a while but today I'm here with one of the most popular and memorable characters of Okinawa, Hogan Mueller.

You may remember Hogan as the 15 year old Eagle Scout from Sato, the kid who read War and Peace every day, and the kid who caught on very quickly that regular bowel movements gave you a boost in energy during the game. He was always funny, always quotable, and I swear this guy is going to be the President of the United States some day. You may not have seen much of his "grown up" side during the game but believe me, there's a side to Hogan most of you never knew. I think most of you are going to be impressed.

So let's get this moving and welcome today's guest, Hogan Mueller. Welcome Hogan, and thanks for taking time off from your busy schedule to relive Okinawa for a little while.


Hogan: Thanks for interviewing me.


Mario: First off, what made you want to apply for Okinawa in the first place?


Hogan: Well, I've always been an avid survivor fan. It started with the very first episode of season one. I had just returned from a Boy Scout meeting and knew that this new show called "Survivor" would be on. All I can say is that I turned to CBS, the intro aired, and I was hooked. And since I am such a fan of Survivor, I knew that I always wanted to be in a cast.


Mario: So you saw Okinawa as the closest thing to the real experience for you.


Hogan: That's what I hoped. When I ran across the application for Survivor Okinawa, I knew this was my chance to participate in the greatest show ever. So after school one day, I put together my application and the rest is history.


Mario: You know, I always had a soft spot for your application, mainly because it was so cocky. It really stood out from the rest, especially coming from somebody so young. So was the cockiness part of your plan to get cast, or was that just Hogan being himself?


Hogan: Maybe a little bit of both. I really don't consider myself outstandingly brilliant or intelligent; however, I know my work ethic sets me apart from the average person. I do know that I can be cocky though. My government teacher gives me a hard time about it, but in my mind every good politician needs to have confidence plus a touch of arrogance. The hard part is trying to balance those two very different aspects. In my application, I think the balance was quite improportionate.


Mario: Did I ever tell you the specific line from your application that got you cast?


Hogan: Not that I can remember.


Mario: It was the part where you said that Survivor was into recycling names, but you wanted to stand out. So if I had a "Hogan" in the cast, people would remember Okinawa because I had someone with a unique name. And that made me laugh because I really was considering things like that when I cast people. I almost cast a guy named Tilghman specifically for that reason, so I was impressed that you were actually thinking in terms of this as a "TV show." You were in the minute I read that line.


Hogan: Haha. At the time I applied, Survivor Thailand had just begun. I remember seeing the cast for the first time, and seeing that there would be ANOTHER Rob, right after Marquesas which just had 2 other Robs. So I was pretty confident I would be the only Hogan applying. In fact, I have never met another Hogan in my life.


Mario: And of course you remember the picture you sent with your application, right?


Hogan: I sent a picture of Hulk Hogan.


Mario: Yep. So I get this application in my inbox from the cockiest 16 year old I've ever met in my life. He's sharp, he's funny, he has a unique name, he thinks outside the box in terms of casting... and he tries to pass himself off as Hulk Hogan in his picture. There was no doubt you were going to be cast. I broke my "no teenagers" rule specifically so we could cast Hogan.


Hogan: Thanks, I tried.


Mario: So were you surprised when you actually got picked for the cast?


Hogan: I would say that I was somewhat surprised, yet I knew that I had a good shot at getting in. I knew that I was the type of person you guys were looking for on the show. But I have to admit I was flustered when I got the notification that I'd be in the cast.


Mario: Funny, you didn't seem like the type who would be easily flustered.


Hogan: Well once I was told I made it to the semifinal round of casting, I pretty much knew I would make it into the final cast. And that's when I got a little nervous. That's when it started to seem like a big deal.


Mario: So looking back at it all, once you were in was the game pretty much what you expected?


Hogan: Looking back on the experience, yes I pretty much got what I wanted out of Okinawa; however, I got a lot more too. And not all of it was good.


Mario: I'm actually surprised more people haven't said that in their interviews. I thought there were a lot of ups and down with this project. So what was the "dark side" of Okinawa for you?


Hogan: For one thing I'm not into social drama, gossip, and exaggerations of the truth, and that's really what most of Survivor is. I don't like what it brings out in people and I don't like the values in instills. I had a hard time staying true to my morals while trying to be a competitive player at the same time.


Mario: I've seen that situational ethics can be a tricky issue for a lot of people on Survivor (look at Gabriel, or Colby). So I wasn't particularly surprised when it started to happen to you too.


Hogan: Yeah, it didn't surprise me either. I knew it would be one of my weaknesses going into the game, but I actually convinced myself that I might be able to work around it. But looking at it now I know that it was foolish to think I could drop ethics.


Mario: So once the game started... were there any unexpected events that happened to you during Okinawa? Anything that really just caught you off guard, from a game point of view?


Hogan: The tea party and the wheel were specifically surprising. I also was shocked to see Ryan voted out so soon right after the merge.


Mario: Heh, even I was surprised at that one.


Hogan: Murtz was a huge surprise too. His true identity I mean.


Mario: And on the flip side, did anything in Okinawa play out exactly as you thought it would?


Hogan: A few of the votes went exactly according to plan, at least in my mind. Like the Matt vote, the Elisabeth vote, the Chris vote, and the Henry vote.


Mario: So what was the deal with the Elisabeth vote? How did you see it develop, from the point of view of someone who wasn't in the Sato alliance?


Hogan: The Elisabeth vote was on day three and I knew that I was on the fence for being voted off, so I had to take action. It was going to be her or me, and I didn't particularly have anything against Elisabeth, but I wanted to save myself. So I tried to make the vote go against her.


Mario: How?


Hogan: I got along with everybody so Elisabeth often used me to get information about what was going on in the alliance. And once I figured out what she was doing, I more or less just told Amy that Elisabeth used me as her spy. That helped draw suspicion away from me and towards Elisabeth and they more or less forgot about voting me out. I wish I could give more details but that was a long time ago and I don't remember all the specifics. So I apologize if my answer is kind of vague.


Mario: And after Elisabeth came Henry, who I know was absolutely not liked among the Satos. What was your reaction when he was voted out on day nine? Were you as excited as the rest of the tribe seemed to be?


Hogan: Like everyone, I was thrilled with the Henry vote. I always found him extremely odd and was glad to get rid of him. Sadly, like the last question I don't remember all of the details but I know Henry was a creep so that was the main incentive.


Mario: And speaking of Henry... what was your reaction to the Tea Ceremony twist on day seven? Henry was sent away and came back with three new allies. How did those developments affect you personally?


Hogan: The twist was great for me because it really breathed new life into my game at the same time. I knew I was on the outskirts of Sato so basically any change in the game was good for me at the time.


Mario: Outskirts, Shmoutskirts. You weren't even in the same area code as the Sato alliance.


Hogan: Sadly, that is pretty true. But when the twist happened I was now suddenly in the majority at Sato and helping to decide who would leave the game. It was really a nice feeling and it definitely kicked up my intensity for the game a notch.


Mario: So up to that point you would say your intensity had been lacking somewhat?


Hogan: Most definitely. I didn't realize how much time it took to be sucessful in a game like this, so I just hadn't been putting the time in. But once the twist happened, I realized I was on a level playing field with everyone and got into gear to intensify my game play.


Mario: Now say that Sato hadn't chosen Henry as the Outcast. What if they had picked you instead?


Hogan: I don't think we ever would have picked a different outcast.


Mario: But say in some alternate universe that they picked you. If you had been sent away to the Tea Ceremony instead of Henry, who would you have chosen to come join you from Kamiya?


Hogan: The first person I would have selected would have been Chris, due to his strength.


Mario: I think every single Sato has mentioned they would have taken Chris.


Hogan: I also would have chosen Mike because I thought he had a cool last name.


Mario: Well that's assuming that Mike wasn't the other Outcast...


Hogan: Hey, this is an alternate universe. You said so yourself.


Mario: Okay, fair enough. You've got Christopher and you've got Mike. So who's the third?


Hogan: I would have taken Joni because of our similarity in age.


Mario: So you were drawn to people similar to your age.


Hogan: Yeah.


Mario: So you liked the Tea Ceremony... but what about the other Twist in Okinawa, the Wheel of Fortune? How did the Wheel ultimately affect your game?


Hogan: I thought it was good at the beginning, but really didn't like it too much when it made my departure imminent.


Mario: It was designed to trap people in strategic corners which, of course, is what happened. The Wheel was supposed to be a pain in your guys' butts and I think it worked.


Hogan: It really did work, but what can you do? The twist is what it is. You deal with it, and you move on.


Mario: What exactly was your strategy in Okinawa? I know you went in with a plan to win, everybody did to some extent. But out of all the people in the game, I'm not sure we ever really saw you strategize during the episodes. What was your plan to get to the endgame?


Hogan: I wanted to be a strong competitor in competitions, but play the dumb teen role back at camp and when talking strategy. That was really the only plan I had going in.


Mario: You played the dumb teen role pretty well. I don't think anybody even considered the fact that you could have just been acting that way.


Hogan: I usually knew what was going on, but I wanted them to just forget about me as a strategist. And once I wan't a threat I figured I needed a solid alliance with 4 or so people, so I tried to hang around the people who were in power. I tried to stay on the outskirts of the main alliance and I also tried to remove myself from a lot of the drama around camp. I never wanted to be seen as a troublemaker.


Mario: So in many ways you were like Vecepia. Or Chris Daugherty. You just wanted to avoid all the fighting and let other people duke it out instead.


Hogan: That was my plan all along. And as I'm sure most of the castaways will tell you today, I am pretty oblivious to a lot of the drama that happened during the season. I never really much cared what other people were doing, especially if it didn't affect me.


Mario: So as the game went along did you have to change your strategy at all?


Hogan: Not really. I pretty much stuck to my initial strategy because it seemed to work. Things went along as planned and I thought I had a pretty good thing going for most of the game.


Mario: And were you able to stay out of the drama?


Hogan: Pretty much. And I believe it got me very close to winning too. Because had Joni stayed true to our alliance/friendship, my strategy probably would have prevailed and I think I would have won Okinawa.


Mario: A lot of people will call BS on that, but the funny thing is that I agree with you. At a certain point in the game I had you and Matt as my #1 and #2 ranked players for the win. You came a lot closer to winning than people seem to think.


Hogan: Yep, I agree, lol.


Mario: So going back to you and Joni, what was it like being so young around so many older players? Obviously you had a bond with her but was it weird being so much younger than everybody else?


Hogan: It actually wasn't a big deal to me. I interact with older people on a daily basis with my political work. Acting mature is something I do naturally (not to seem arrogant or anything like that).


Mario: It's true. I wouldn't have cast you if you came off like a 16 year old.


Hogan: Though like I said, in the game I deliberately tried to play the dumb teen role so I wouldn't be seen as an intellectual threat.


Mario: And you never were considered much of a threat. By Sato OR Kamiya. Henry even went so far as to call you "boring" and "a casting mistake."


Hogan: I actually may have gone too far in playing dumb, for that very reason. People tended to dismiss me and call me an idiot. Though you can verify that as my academic record shows, I am probably as smart as most of the people in the cast (besides you of course, lol).


Mario: Heh. My academic record pales next to yours though. You're light years ahead of where I ever was at 16.


Hogan: But anyway no, being around older players didn't bother me at all. I always seem to root for the older people on Survivor. That probably explains why I liked people like Beth, Amy, and Lance so much.


Mario: Were those your three best allies during the game? Or was there one specific person who stood above the rest as your best ally in Okinawa?


Hogan: Lance was by far my best ally.


Mario: I agree. He really seemed to think of you like a little brother. He was very protective of you during the game.


Hogan: You know, I get really fed up when I hear people rag on Lance. He was the most honest, loyal, and trustworthy person in the cast. While some don't see those as positive attributes, I think they are excellent qualities to have in an ally and Survivor contestant. Lance McHale was the most honorable person in the cast.


Mario: I was always ashamed that more people didn't get behind him in the story.


Hogan: When my fate was imminent, Lance stood by my side, sealing his fate in the process. Amy did the same. I'm very grateful for their friendship and loyalty to me. Both of them were Satos to the end.


Mario: You had two solid allies to the end but... on the flip side... who would you say was your biggest nemesis in Okinawa?


Hogan: Hmmm, I think the viewers would agree that I was a pretty all around likeable person. I didn't go around trying to instigate fights or perpetuate drama. Thus, I don't think I necessarily had one person that you could consider my enemy. But that being said there were a few people that I had run-ins with. Some might say Chris was a nemesis due to our power struggle at Sato. Some might say Emma was my nemesis, mainly due to the F.U. conversation we had before I left (which I still laugh about today).


Mario: One of my favorite moments in the game!


Hogan: People are probably expecting me to say Joni was my nemesis, but I feel we had more good times than bad.


Mario: So if you didn't perpetuate drama and you had no enemies in Okinawa, what do you feel ultimately did you in and cost you the game?


Hogan: My trust in Joni ultimately did me in as well as my dumb vote to get Matt out of the game. I put too much trust in Joni and my friendship with her and I chose it over strategy.


Mario: Yeah so what was the real story behind your vote for Matt on day 27? You just didn't like his personal politics?


Hogan: I just let emotion for saving Joni override the logical thinking of sticking with my Sato alliance. I chose friendship over strategy. And it doesn't surprise me today that I voted for Joni because loyalty to friends is one of my most prominent principles. And I would probably do the same thing if the same situation came up today.


Mario: You took a lot of flak for that choice. Some feel it ultimately cost Sato the game.


Hogan: Look at it this way, in class the other day we did an activity where the class had to match an adjective with an individual in the class. When loyalty came up, I was overwhelmingly selected. But Joni obviously had different motives at the point in the game where I left. Do I question those motives? Yes, I personally feel they were ill concieved; however, I respect her ability to separate game from emotion. That's something that I have very little ability to do.


Mario: So moving past that, did you have any favorite moments in Okinawa? What was the best part for you?


Hogan: I enjoyed talking with Chris during the game. We were pretty funny when we talked together. Plus I'm sure he got a riot out of my primitive speech and explations/nicknames I gave during our convos.


Mario: He did. You were one of the few people he truly liked on Sato, he often talked about it. He would actually defend you if Murtz or Henry or someone started to trash you behind your back.


Hogan: Another favorite moment was getting my chance to go into "Debate Mode" at the final tribal council.


Mario: Poor Mike. You were really hard on him.


Hogan: Yeah, I felt bad for Mike because I was really railing on him, but that's just the way I am. I've been known to get "passionate" in debate rounds. Once, I made a girl cry.


Mario: Nice!


Hogan: More recently, the Teenage Republican Club I run debated our school's Teenage Democrat Club. At the end of the debate, this girl came up to me and said I would be a nice person if I wasn't such an arrogant, stuck up, egotistical prick. Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion.


Mario: So if those were your favorite moments, were there any moments which weren't so great for you?


Hogan: The worst moment was knowing that Joni would betray me. I was also heartbroken when I heard that Beth got voted out on Kamiya.


Mario: That was an awful episode. I hated it.


Hogan: Another bad moment was when I realized my vote for Matt was the stupidest thing I could have done strategically. I felt horrible because what people say is correct. It probably cost Sato the game.


Mario: If it wasn't the death blow, it was awfully close.


Hogan: Another moment I disliked was at the final Tribal Council when I was told that I had the worst game play of anybody who made the merge. More than one person mentioned that and it's something that really cut deep. It's a title I feel I didn't earn.


Mario: Hogan, there's one thing that I know a lot of people want to know and it's probably something you don't really want me to ask...


Hogan: Probably not, lol.


Mario: I'd like to ask what happened between you and Joni in Okinawa? What was the real story there and how much of it was accurately presented in the actual episodes?


Hogan: Hmm. Okay.


Mario: So what was the deal? Is this something you even want to talk about?


Hogan: I'll talk about it but it's going to be very brief.


Mario: That's fine.


Hogan: Joni and I were friends in the game, nothing more. Internet dating is moronic if you ask me, so that was something that obviously neither of us were in to. And as for game-wise, I felt supremely betrayed by what she did. I felt she chose strategy over friendship and it just wasn't what I would have done had I been in her shoes.


Mario: Playing Devil's advocate, however, one could say that she chose friendship too. She just chose a different friendship when she wouldn't vote against Michelle.


Hogan: Well, Michelle ended up voting her out six days later. I never would have. That's the difference.


Mario: Okay, fair enough. And I think I know the answer to the next question... but do you think you would ever do a game like Okinawa again?


Hogan: You know, I really don't think I would. It was fun at the time but it was also extremely time consuming. It bred a lot of anxiety and, in my opinion, was overall very unhealthy. Additionally, I am extremely busy right now with other obligations which would prevent me from doing Survivor again.


Mario: You know, the longer I dealt with Okinawa the more I started to agree with you. These games aren't very healthy for people, are they?


Hogan: Not at all. But that won't keep me from remaining a steadfast, loyal fan of Survivor. I'll just stick to the real version instead of the online version from now on.


Mario: Hey, did you ever finish reading War and Peace?


Hogan: lol, no. That novel was solely read during my Survivor experience and when it ended, so did my reading of it. I have been reading other books lately though, mostly political novels. And for those of you wondering, yes, I do read liberal literature. It's a great way for me to understand the opposition's argument, finding their weaknesses, and using the fissures in their doctrine to support the solid rock of conservatism.


Mario: And like War and Peace, the pages also make excellent toilet paper.


Hogan: I didn't say that. You did, lol.


Mario: So before we go, can you give us an update on what you've been up to since Okinawa? I know it's been a while since we've heard from you.


Hogan: Well, like I said I have been extremely busy. My course schedule at school is quite grueling; I am taking all honors courses. My roles on our debate squad and as Jr. Class President keep me busy too. Additionally, being President of the Teenage Republican club I started at our school is very time consuming. This past summer the club was named Best Club In the Nation. My role as President of the organization entails tremendous amounts of time fundraising, managing club activities, and my favorite, going to Republican events.


Mario: Been to any big ones?


Hogan: Actually, the highlight of my political carreer thus far was this past March, where I got to meet President George W. Bush and Sec. of State Condi Rice. They are both amazing people with even better personalities when you meet them face to face.


Mario: Wow, where did you meet them? I take it they didn't fly out to Kansas just to meet you.


Hogan: lol, no. I met them at the White House on the south lawn during the US Senate Youth Program. I was one of only a hundred seniors and juniors selected from across the nation for this program, so it was quite an honor and a great experience for me altogether.


Mario: So did you get to meet any liberals or was this Republicans only?


Hogan: I didn't really meet him but I was standing in the Russell Senate Office Building and John Kerry bumped into me. I didn't get to say anything, but his slime did ruin my brand new coat, lol.


Mario: Heh, well as always it's been fun talking with you, Hogan. You truly were one of a kind in Okinawa and one of the few people I never regretted casting for a second. You were always fun to read about, you took more dumps than anybody in the history of Survivor... and I wish you well with all your activities and your political career.


Hogan: Thanks!


Mario: And remember that you promised to hire me as a speechwriter when you become huge and successful some day. :)


Hogan: Most definitely! I'm counting on you and some other survivor gurus to come and help with campaign speeches and strategy.


Mario: I'll see if I can work the phrase "Pagonging" into one of your victory speeches.


Hogan: Okay, we'll see.


Mario: So anyway... Hogan, do you have any parting words you'd like to add before you disappear into the Survivor sunset one more time? Any last comments before we lose you to the world of politics forever?


Hogan: I'd just like to thank the rest of the cast for completing this project with such vigor and enthusiasm. You all made this experience a great one for me and I'm honored I could share this experience with such Survivor gurus. It still makes me smile thinking back to the time we all felt like real castaways on a real island with real fans following our every move. It's a memory I'm not ever going to forget.


Mario: Thanks Hogan!

And that’s the end of the Hogan Mueller interview. I hope you had a good time meeting the guy who was one of my personal favorite casting choices in the entire game. Stay tuned for more interviews later this week, including one with the Okinawan winner, Mike Ruff. I'll post announcements when they have been added to the archives.

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