Early Show Transcript
February 13, 2004
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QUESTION: Hi Murtz, welcome to the Early Show.

MURTZ: Hi Julie, it's great to be here although I do have a request that Harry do this interview.

QUESTION: Why is that?

MURTZ: Because apparently if you watched the show, I am sexist. Haha, just kidding Julie. Just trying to prove my point that it is amazing to see how characters come to life on screen. I also brought some donuts, but you can't have any (laughs).

QUESTION: Murtz, how responsible, if any, do you feel for the whole Danielle situation?

MURTZ: I take total responsibility for the Danielle situation. While everyone mocked her, I have no problem taking the blame for all of it. In general, if I did it... then I will say I did. What I cannot stand for is being blamed for things that I did not do.

Danielle received a lot of my venom. The reason is that she wasn't around as much as everyone else. I took this game very seriously and was here to play from the first minute. When Danielle went missing on the first day, she immediately became a target to me. I just felt that you had to be here a lot because if I was sacrificing a million other responsibilities I had at home to play this game, everyone else should be too. Contrary to popular belief, I did not want the girls gone just because they were girls. All three were not here as much as the members of my alliance, and that's why I wanted them gone. If you weren't here to play on day 1, then I could not count on you for anything.

Dani is the only major regret I have. She did not deserve what she got. Remember though, every action and move I made in the game was strategic. Nobody played a more strategic game than I did and I know the viewers didn't see that, but that's why they have the Early Show.

I mocked Dani because she served as one person who could be voted off ahead of me. I was not close to her in-game, and since she wasn't around as much, I thought that she was a fair first boot. Perhaps isolating her wasn't the best move, and the insults I hurled were unnecessary but they were magnified for my Dave Roth character. I have apologized to Dani personally and have asked her to judge me on my behaviour post-game. It was never personal. I just felt that she did not play as hard as the rest of us and that was as good enough as any reason to make my allies suspicious of her.

In all actuality, I think that she should take it as a compliment and that's not just lip service. When she said that Chris and Michelle approached her and Isabella to form a counter-alliance, I thought that she wanted to just rip the team in half to make up for the fact that she wasn't an active contributer to camp. That was the smart move to make and I would have done the exact same thing in her position. I felt that she was quite dangerous because of this, and whlle she was telling the truth, her lack of participation made me apprehensive about her intentions. She got a bad deal, and I am sorry for it.

Slamming David and Matt also had a purpose. I knew that they ran the show at Sato and I figured that Beth did too which is why I kept repeating that they be the ones that Kamiya should select and destroy (since we figured out the twist before it happened). My attacks were not insane. They had a premeditated purpose. I wanted the tribe to also dislike David and Matt because I felt they were the strongest and that Sato would crumble if they were to leave. Like Dani, it is a backhanded compliment to their game.

QUESTION: Murtz, I know you blame Mike for not saving you from the twist at the time, what do you think he should have done/could have done to do so? And what would you have done in that situation?

MURTZ: First let me start by thanking you for the question. I said many times that Mike was the hardest player for me to figure out. I could never tell if he was honest or playing a strategy that I couldn't see. When I pushed for Dani to sit out the second immunity, Mike kept saying she should be given a chance to save herself. My paranoid side made me think that there was a reason he wanted her to participate and save herself, so I questioned him. This was another mistake because I now know that Mike was fiercely loyal to the original 5 alliance.

I also questioned Mike's leadership at times. But the fact that I questioned him and referred to him as a "big dumb ogre" does not negate the fact that he was always in my end-game plan. I felt like an idiot for questioning his leadership after the twist, because I could not believe how important an organizer was. Mike was single-handedly responsible for all of Kamiya's initial success and I have no problem admitting this.

Now, onto the question. Yes, I do blame Mike for not saving me at the tea ceremony. The reason is that on the first day, Mike was the one who asked Ryan and I to form an alliance. Not me. My strategy was to sit back for the first 2 days and wait for people to come to me. I wanted to make one alliance of 5 people at the beginning and sit on it for the rest of the game. I wanted the alliance to consist of one older male (since I found them to be the most trustworthy in Survivor history), and 4 others who had a similar strategic and aggressive attitude to this game. I wanted these 4 to also buy the mom story, but I amended that part of the plan and that was another reason for my undoing. Sex was never an issue, which is why I pushed for Michelle's inclusion since I respected her game so much at the beginning. After Ryan/Mike and I formed the Amigos, I wanted the two other people that I felt were the strongest and I believed them to be Chris and Michelle. I had no idea they were working against us, and for that reason, I apologize to both Ryan and Mike.

In any event, after Danigate, we weren't sure who to trust and Mike and I were both pretty pissed when we thought Chris and Mich sold us out (which in hindsight was justified). Anyway, Mike wanted to go and call them out. I pushed for him to calm down and I really felt like we connected out of our mutual loyalty to the 5.

When we got the survey to fill out and Michelle and I basically micromanaged all of the answers (which was awesome by the way Mich), and Mike was selected to go to the twist ceremony... I was overjoyed. Here was my second closest ally in the game, in charge of picking who would stay and who would go! So I admittedly was arrogant about the situation. I felt I had nothing to worry about.

We all know what happened. I woke up at Sato and I feel like I am still in that nightmare. Then when Ryan beat Chris at Kendo Wars, Michelle beat Lance, and Mike beat Phony... well let's just say I was more than a little miffed. They swore to me that they would throw it. I did not see that Ryan and Mike both tried to but were forced to compete. If I had known that, I would never have questioned them (even though I still really didn't). I wanted them to be loyal because I was.

What would I have done differently than Mike at the tea ceremony? I would have told Henry that I was going to fuck him up if he took Ryan or Dave Roth. I know that isn't Mike's style, but I would have dared Henry to pick my friends. If he did, I would have had no problems with it. But at least I could say I tried. I know Mike wasn't in charge of choosing who stayed at Kamiya (he only picked who joined over from Sato) but I certainly would not have told Henry that I was paranoid since Henry could see that as an advantage to capitalize on.

QUESTION: Murtz, how well do you think you were able to pull off the dying mother ploy? Do you think most of the players believed it? Was it hard for you to keep up?

MURTZ: Heh, no one figured it out so I think I did it very well. Henry and Isabella were the closest, but both still believed it, so I think I did a pretty good job. It was never hard for me to lie about it. In all honesty, I actually enjoyed lying about it but I did not pull it off as I wanted to. My initial plan was to align with the people who bought it and felt bad. But then I realized that I didn't really like those kinds of sympathetic losers. I wanted to surround myself with cutthroats. With bastards. With people that would do anything to win. That's what I did. I surrounded myself with the strong, and I think that is respectable. Because the strong are always a threat to take you out, and I knew that. But I wanted a respectable player to take me out so that's who I sided with.

I got really screwed with the mom thing though. We were in Okinawa when Jonny Fairplay stole my idea (I did it first). Also, this fifth episode airs at the same time that Jenna's episode of Survivor All-Stars aired. But that's okay. I have become used to the breaks not falling my way (see the twist). One funny thing that viewers didn't get to see was in my conversation with Isabella. I wish I had figured out that it was her because I know she has experienced cancer in her family, and I really did feel bad when I figured out it was her and not Emma. Anyway, I knew that she was buying the mom story the most and she kept asking me all these details, like what my fake mom's name was. I knew that Roth was a Jewish name, so I had to pick a female jewish name out of thin air. I said my mom's name was Beth and I got the idea from Sato's Beth. I thought that was quite comical. I also had planned to hire an actress in the event that I made it to the family visit.

QUESTION: What was the most difficult point of the game for you? What was your best moment?

MURTZ: The most difficult moment in the game was the day I got to Sato. I was shell-shocked. I am a planner and I did not see it coming because I knew Mike was picking and he was a major ally of mine. Anytime Chris raised the issue of replacing him with Emma, I avoided answering because I gave my word that I was with Mike/Ryan/Mich/Chris and that's where all of my loyalties were. The twist and every moment at Sato were the hardest for me. Ryan wasn't around, and I missed him. I was sent over with people that I wanted to protect but who were working against me from day one. And I wanted no part of the Satos, because they were not Kamiyans. I don't think that anyone will deny that I was the most loyal Kamiyan. I didn't like some of the people in my initial group, but at Sato I put that aside because that's how badly I wanted a Kamiyan to win. That's why when I watch the show and see how I am accused of "talking down" to people or "ignoring" others, I only laugh because I did not ignore or talk down to one person in this game, even the ones I didn't like. At the end of the day, I wasn't the one who turned on Kamiya.

The personal attacks also are hard to watch. I don't mind seeing them from people I considered adversaries in the game because that was my MO. But when I see them coming from people that I liked, it's hard to see. When I saw the episode with the twist, and Michelle said she was glad to see me go... it was very hard for me to watch. I know that goes against the tough Murtz persona, but Murtz hurts as well (as hard as that is to believe).

Amy also was the source of a couple of lowlights (laughs). They aren't serious though. I didn't like losing that gross food challenge to her. I also hated her giving away the donuts without asking me. I can forgive a lot, but that one I don't think I ever will be able to. I mean, I worked for those donuts. You can't just give even a part of them away without getting a tribe member's permission. It's just not cool. It was a team challenge. Also, I hated it when she hugged me. I felt it was phony since I knew that we were on opposite sides. I would have preferred her slap me.

My best moment was beating McD at the Kendo Wars. We needed to win to stay alive (or so I thought, since I didn't know about the Core) and I got the job done. I also enjoyed practicing throwing the Ninja Stars before the last Reward/Immunity Challenge. While the rest of my tribe (except one who practiced also), were sleeping... I was working. That was the story of my life at Sato. When Kamiya came to that challenge prepared and practiced, I couldn't help but smile. We were always prepared. And yes, I did say "we." Because I was always a Kamiyan. Loyal to my tribe. I hope that all of the Satos can respect that. I do not mean it as a slight on them. But I stuck by my word to my original allies. That probably cost me the game, but it was one of my best moments.

Before the game I expected to be more than willing to turn on anyone. But I just couldn't bring myself to do it. I like to refer to it as a strategical loyalist strategy with a dash of sick mom. And I am proud that I stuck by my principles and did not turn on Ryan first and foremost and subsequently Chris, Michelle and Mike.

I also am proud of the fact that I figured out Isabella's real identity (which the producers can verify), but it was too late to do anything about it. If I had lasted a little longer... it would have been fun to see.

QUESTION: Does anything surprise you while seeing the episodes for the first time? Anything that caught you completely off guard?

MURTZ: Not really. I expected certain people to be edited as heroes and others to be cast as villains. I also know that once you sign up for this stuff, you place your being in the hands of the editors. Just know that there are no good guys in this game. No angels. And that's not a knock on anyone. It's the truth. It's just a game of who can get the dirtiest and that's exactly what I wanted and expected. There is just bad, evil, and fucking serial. It's actually just like cereal. People tell you that Frosted Flakes is bad for your teeth, and Honey Bunches of Oats is good. Really though, they both do the same amount of damage.

That being said, it is really hard for me to see Chris' comments. My problem in the game was that all I saw was black and white. You either were a player that I respected, or someone in my way. And everyone was a number. Just a number. I saw nothing else in anyone and this was my major mistake. Not valuing friendships enough. This was the case with me and everyone except for Ryan and Chris, who I was fiercely loyal to. To see that Chris discredited me from the first moment was very hard to watch. But I am surprised very rarely, which is why I knew that this wasn't the time or place to make friends. I didn't want any. I didn't expect any and I am glad I had that mindset because it made getting over the trash-talk from allies, easier (although still incredibly painful).

I also expected more time to be focused on who worked at camp and who didn't. Because the difference between Kamiya and Sato was vast and was the main reason I wanted to go back home to my friends so badly.

QUESTION: How did the turtle taste? Like chicken?

MURTZ: Like betrayal. I was betrayed by a friend, so I betrayed my friend. The turtle was always a signal to Ryan and Mike that I was with them. I ate it and hoped they would hear about it because I wanted to show them that Dani was right and that I was backstabbed.

QUESTION: Did you realize how badly Chris, Joni and Michelle wanted you out of the game? Dani told the truth about Chris and Michelle playing both sides and yet in the end, you chose to believe them over her? Why? What made you decide to believe them instead of Dani?

MURTZ: Because I wanted a deserving player to win and because I genuinely liked Chris and Michelle (although the feeling apparently wasn't mutual). I thought Dani was lying as a last-ditch attempt to save herself. Chris and Michelle were brilliant actors and I was fooled. That decision doesn't bother me though. At the time, it was the only move to make. I wish I had known more details of what Dani told Ryan because he didn't give me enough info about it. Dani never told me about the Angels. I heard it second-hand through Ryan, and he didn't tell me enough to make me doubt either of them.





QUESTION: If there was one thing you could go back and change, what would it be?

MURTZ: I would have liked to align with Isabella. She wasn't here enough on the first day though, and so my first impressions of her were soured. At Sato, I missed her just as much as I did Ryan/Mike/Mich.

I do not regret the way I acted at Sato. I thought they were inferior players. Chris and I were the only ones who did any work on that campsite. That's fact. And that's the ONLY reason, I would not even consider them as partners. Like Dani, I figured that if they didn't want to actively do tasks around camp, they were lazy. And there was no room for lazy on my watch. I would not stand for it.

QUESTION: What was your feeling on the small scene at the end of your last episode, after you had been voted out, when the others went back to camp and found the turtle's remains and the note?

MURTZ: Just highlighted how petty people can be. I wished everyone luck, even the people I didn't particularly care for. For me, Okinawa was always a game. Dave Roth was always a character. They can talk all they want about Roth. But I didn't appreciate the comments against Murtz. Chris said that he knew Dave Roth was a fake name. Well, that was never mentioned until I chose to reveal it. He also said that I was a "sad little man." I thought that was unnecessary. You can judge what Roth did in the game. Not Murtz.

Somebody asked who Murtz was. Well I'll tell you.

Murtz was the best player in Survivor Okinawa (laughs), even if I am the only one who says that. I played a dangerous game. I aligned with the strong. I did not play nice with people that I didn't like just in an attempt to stay longer. And I think that my endgame plan was very well thought-out.

I wanted to go to the end with the five. After Henry was gone, I figured there was a shot of tying the next vote and making it to the merge intact. Then we would reconnect. I had three final 3 alliances. One with Ryan/Mike. One with Michelle/Ryan. One with Chris/Michelle/Ryan. This was risky, but admittedly I did not give enough people enough credit. My plan at the 5 was to be the swing vote between the two competing factions of Ryan/Mike and Chris/Michelle. I thought the plan was so solid and my partners were so concrete, that I refused to adapt.

I might have lied about a mom with cancer and played an asshole on TV... but they voted a guy whose mom had cancer... out of the tribe. I actually am impressed they were evil enough to do that.

QUESTION: During the game, we heard a lot about Joni's feelings towards you, that she thought you were talking down to her and the like. What's your take on that?

MURTZ: Who are you talking about? Phony? Pony sticker? Oh, you mean the girl who was working only about a quarter of the time that I was at camp and is made out to be one of the heroines of our story. Now I remember.

Well, first... I generally had a rule that I live by while watching Survivor Okinawa. If she said it, it is wrong or is a lie.

I never ever talked down to her. Until now, that is. First of all, it's kind of hard carrying on a conversation with somebody that is only awake and around the camp about half the time as the others. But alas, we don't get to see that.

If anything, I was the one who initiated conversations with her. I fully admit that my conversations were purely strategic with her, but that's how it was for everybody. I did not care about people's personal lives in the game. It wasn't just her. Although this was true, I still asked her about her classes back home, her favorite movies, how much she was looking forward to the new Peter Pan movie. How would I know that stuff if I talked down to her, or ignored her.

It's bullshit.

She came into this game with a chip on her shoulder that made her think that people were underestimating her, and I can't speak for the rest... but I never did. She was never in my initial plans because of three reasons:

1. She wasn't around as much as my 5.

2. She wasn't around as much as my 5.

3. She didn't work as hard as the others.

That's it. In her warped reality, that constituted gender discrimination, age discrimination, givemeabreak discrimination. I don't know if she was being fed bad information or if I was simply taking the hit for the other guys who ignored her. Whatever, the reason... I have admitted to every bad thing I did and even am willing to absolve my teammates for their role in the Dani saga by taking full responsibility for it. But I will not admit to stuff I didn't do or say.

I was always civil to her. And when we arrived at Sato, all of my strategical plans involved saving her. I realize that she and Chris saved themselves with their deal with Amy/Hogan, but every plan I discussed with Chris at Sato, included her.

Hell, I didn't even vote for her when Henry asked everyone to. If I hated her so much... why didn't I even attempt to? Why did I thank her and wish her and Chris good luck in my note that they dismissed?

I have many problems with the Phony propoganda. But the worst of the worst is when we arrived at Sato and I was in a horrible emotional state. She cut a confessional and questioned my loyalty. She said that I would try to screw her and Chris over. How I will sell them out at the first opportunity and how frustrating it is for her.

I did not write her name down, and I was not the one who made a deal with the Satos. If anything, I fought my hardest to protect them.

When I asked her about Chris and Michelle's involvement in Danigate when she was tying her shoe, she said that she wanted to barf.

Well I wanted to puke everytime I was in a conversation with her, but I maintained my game face, smiled, and was polite.

I just feel bad that all of Chris, Amy, and Hogan's hard work to deceive me went up in smoke because I never would have figured out that I was next, if a certain someone didn't feel the need to lecture me about some Louis XIX history or something.

Phony always says that she was the mature one and was underestimated. But she openly told Chris that she wanted to make fun of me before I left, and that's perfectly cool. Just don't be wholesome about it. If she didn't feel the need to lecture me, I would not have been warned and made the subsequent Jabba preparations.

Amy once told me that Phony was a smart cookie. And if that's what she is, I am just fine with being a stupid lobster.

As for my need to number the votes, I stand by the decision. It let me know who was telling the truth and who wasn't. Putting the suns on Henry's votes was great because I wanted him to blame Amy-- my nemesis in the game. So I hope that if any other votes are numbered as the show continues, they get branded with the same control-freak label that I was awarded.

So I guess it depends on what your definition of a good guy is. I think that I was honest, or as honest as guy who is lying about having a mom with cancer can be.

QUESTION: What are your feelings towards Christopher? Do you two get along still?

MURTZ: Chris hurt me. I really thought that we were close, and I never said a bad word about him... but he is one that fooled me (smiles). Must be his acting background.

Chris played remarkably well. I could not do what he did, and so he gets credit. I wanted the strong around me at all times... and I guess he wanted to save himself and his alliance by keeping the weak around him. To each his own. I kept my end of our deal, and I always would. I liked Chris too much to even consider turning and I would play the same way again. As I said before, I don't befriend many and Chris was without question a lifesaver for me after the twist.

I know I was irritating with my constant strategy talk, but realize that he was the only one I talked about the game with. Sure, I had brief discussions with everyone... but Chris got a lot and I don't blame him for going crazy. He was the only one I felt I could talk to, and the funny thing is that he is the one who gave me the poisoned apple.

I did not like him calling me all those names at tribal council, because I do not feel he has the right to call me a "manic depressive child" just because I played the game in a certain manner. But that's his prerogative. I also didn't like how he said I was ignoring Phony after we arrived at Sato, because that is a lie. I do not like lies (other than ones about moms with cancer). I did not ignore her. Just because I do not talk game with people, does not mean I am ignoring them.

In any event, I will think of Chris always as the guy I knew at Sato. A mean son of a bitch that I thought was awesome and always will.

QUESTION: Do you think the twist was fair? Do you think you would have done better on Kamiya?

MURTZ: No, the twist was not fair for everyone involved. Why should I be put in a minority when four other Kamiyans didn't have to go through that hell? While it probably saved me from being the next to go at Kamiya, I would have much rather gone there. The Satos did not work half as hard as the Kamiyans and were not available to talk to. So it was a bad situation.

It was also bad for David, Beth, and Matt. So ultimately I will only wish those who were twisted the best of luck.

I cannot respect a winner who didn't have to go through a minority twist. Because they won't know what it was like.

QUESTION: There was something I was desperately waiting to see, and it never happened. What would you have done if, at some point, one of your tribemates had pointed at you in public and announced for all to hear 'Hey! Dave Roth is Brian Heidik's porno name! Who the hell are you tryng to fool?' I mean, you were so paranoid, you must have had a contingency plan readied, I'm just curious what it would have been.

MURTZ: Yup, my contingency plan for that scenario was the same as what I had planned for the final TC (if I made it that far). I would have told them to go screw themselves. I was never here to win because you cannot control what other people do. I was here to get to the final two. And if I couldn't get there... I wanted to go out as a character that people remembered.

Realize that Dave Roth is not Murtz Jaffer. I did not want to be boring in this story. Patrick Gilchriest said that I wasn't a power player and that I should have played as myself. Well sorry Patrick, but I felt that my name would make me an immediate target. And I do think I was a power player. I made a strong alliance, got people to do what I wanted, and played over-the-radar. To me, that is the mark of how Survivor should be played.

I was never just a vote.

Am I the 11th best player in this game? That's where I went out, so I guess it is. Was I paranoid? Yes. Was I controlling? Yes. But the fact of the matter is this. I did not rely on anyone else at anytime. When I was in the minority, I did not play nice or beg. I stuck with my friends to the death.

I felt like my time in Okinawa was a combination of several songs. Losing My Religion by R.E.M., I'm Too Sexy by Right Said Fred, and She Drives Me Crazy by the Fine Young Cannibals. And of course the classic by Timbaland and Magoo. "In suspension like a sports car, Shaunte got big lips and handlebars. Put it on Roth like a porno star. Run back the tape in VCR." Murtz is gone. I just hope the show doesn't get too boring now. You won't have the paranoid teacher by day, porn star by night to deal with anymore. So I hope you taped the first five shows.

Murtz hurts.

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